Wednesday, May 28, 2008

My response to Ex-atheist:

     First his comment:

Pvblivs said...
"You mean put aside "my" concept of right and wrong…"

Yes – "your" concepts of right and wrong are not perfect, so aren't mine, so aren't everyone's; trust God’s concepts of right and wrong, He's the objective standard.
In the mean time you’re measuring with 32 inch yard stick, your compass needle is plastic, your calculator is missing an '8'… It’s like the character John Nash in the movie "Beautiful Mind" when he said "I can fix this (his own schizophrenia), I just need to use my mind." The doctor replies – "That's the problem, you mind is what's broken, it can't help you." (I don't remember the exact lines - but good movie) We’re broken (our moral compass is off) - that’s what sin does, and that's why people don't see how bad sin really is.

You said...
"You haven't described how you do things that people agree are good."

My life isn’t to simply please people and adhere to their definition of good – but God’s. Jesus taught His followers to feed the hungry, help the poor, visit those in prison, give sacrificially, pray for others, follow the commandments, preach the gospel. These are the things I do and strive to do.

You said...
"I actually think there is something beyond this world, so there is still hope. I just think your deity is false. But in your scenario, the 'reward' the victims get is eternal torment for the 'glory' and pleasure of your deity."

I’m very, very impressed that you think there is something beyond this world. I’m actually very surprised that you would admit this. Why do you believe there is something? What evidence do you have that there is?

The "victim" issue is still missing the big picture. All have sinned before a Holy God, victims and civil criminals. God will be just on the day when all stand before Him. No one will enter hell without absolutely knowing that is exactly what they deserve.

(PS. You can have the last word – I’m moving on to newer posts – enjoyed the debate – be well.)


     Next my reply:


     I don't have evidence that there is something beyond this world. Therefore, I don't fault those who disagree. (We all have beliefs for which we have no evidence. That, in itself, is not wrong. Trying to force others to accept your non-evidenced beliefs is.)
     Whild I can accept that my standard of right and wrong (formed from my perceptions) may be imperfect, I am not going to throw it away just because you claim that your deity's is objective. What reason do I have to believe that your deity's standard is object. You saying so and him saying so are not reasons. So far, everything you have said is predictable on the assumption that you knowing serve an evil being.
     "My life isn’t to simply please people and adhere to their definition of good – but God’s."
     But your previous claim was (paraphrased) [if he is evil, why does he inspire me to do good?] An evil being, claiming to be good will inspire you to do that which he says is good.

     His comment suggests that he has no intention of checking a reply. So, I have decided to post my reply here as well. I should point out in regards to his analogies. My compass needle is not plastic. It has shown itself regularly useful. My calculator has the '8.' And my yardstick marks off 36 inches. These devices may all be imperfect; but they have shown themselves useful approximations. He seems to want me to switch to a calculator that says 57 - 12 = "you are a sinner." That "objective" calculator gives the same result for all calculations. The compass he wants me to use flails wildly. And the yardstick is not regularly marks. If I copy the markings from one end to a sheet of paper, they fail to align (even approximately) when measured at the other end.
     Since I currently have a useful standard, I will continue to use it. The "objective" standard that christian generally try to impose seems worse than useless.
     It should also be noted that previously, when he was talking about how his god inspires him to do good, he did not include feeding the hungry or helping the poor. He focused largely on preaching the gospel and "serving his god."

No comments: