Thursday, April 03, 2008

Is the bible reliable?

     The claim made by believers is that the bible is a message from an omnipotent god who wants everyone to act on it. (Some believers claim it is a "personal" message; but I will not address that at this time.) An omnipotent being thinks it is important that I know a message comes from him and he uses a two-thousand-year-old text of dubious authorship? Can't he tell me directly?
     Consider. If you are trying to get an important message to someone, and all options are available, what method do you use?
     A> Tell him directly.
     B> Call him on the phone.
     C> Send him a letter.
     D> Leave an anonymous note on his doorstep.
     E> Have a homeless person give him the message.
     The nature of the bible reeks of inauthenticity. There may be a supernatural being behind it. But he is not who he says he is.

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

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Pvblivs said...

"Anonymous:"

     If your actions were as closely monitered as you claim, you would have the government knocking down your own door. Threats like that are unlawful.
     I have heard about people like you, people who try to instill fear in anyone who dares speak his mind and question the bible. You are no whistle-blower. In all likelihood you are a petty thug.
     Incidentally, I see no reason to keep three copies of your post up on three separate threads. One will suffice to show the world the sort of person you are.

Rita Martinez said...

Pvblivs when God spoke to the Israelites directly they were so afraid they would die right then and there they asked Moses to do all the listening and then come back and tell them.

He did speak directly to Moses et al...They transcribed it to paper, although the ten commandments were etched in stone. Not only that one of God's ordinances was to learn the Mosaic Laws to write it everywhere, repeat to their children and themselves over and over, to write it in their hearts.

The Lord has given us His word and He has preserved it, whether it seems to you of dubious authorship and reeking of inauthenticity.

You mustn't think an omnipotent being be power enough to preserve His word throughout time in the way He has.

Just my 2 cents.

Pvblivs said...

Rita Martinez:

     There may indeed have been a being who spoke directly to Moses and the Israelis. He did not, however, speak directly to me. I certainly didn't ask Moses to do all the listening and get back to me. Right now, I have to conclude that either he is not the source, he could not tell me directly, or that he doesn't think it important that I know the message is from him.

Rita Martinez said...

Pvblivs with all due respect that is just silly. Its like saying well I don't believe Hitler killed all those jews...until he comes up to me and confess his crimes I won't believe him! with the huge diference that hitler is dead now.

God spoke to moses and the prophets, God's words were written on paper, Jesus Christ who is God approved and even taught OT Scripture, and through the Holy Spirit inspired the words of the NT, so that we could have it today. People bled and died to have the Bible translated into who knows how many thousands of languages that we may be able to read it.
Now I know that means scratch to you, but that reasoning of yours is foolish and childish, again with all due respect.

It is a terrible thing to face the almighty God says His word, were He to face you as you'd like you wouldn't live long enough to tell the story.

Take care!
By the way thanks for the polite response I never know what to expect.

Pvblivs said...

Rita Martinez:

     Actually, for the Hitler case, the fact that he would rather I not know he did that fits the list of possibilities. I did list "or that he doesn't think it important that I know the message is from him" as one of the possibilities. Hitler is also unable to tell me directly (and would probably be so even if alive.)
     Calling my reasoning foolish and childish is not very convincing. Neither is putting your conclusion into your premises. That it was really the god of the universe and that Jesus was this god are things that you have not established. Many people were willing to die for the christian religion. That is true. People have been willing to die for other religions as well. It means they are committed believers; but it does not mean they are correct.

Rita Martinez said...

you're right it was silly, for the Hitler case its more like unless Anne Frank tells me herself that she was hiding from the Nazis I wont believe the stuff she wrote, for all I know someone could've made that up. Its like looking at history books and saying nah, none of that happened, unless the people tell me themselves I wont believe it! humph! excuse me if that does not sound childish to you, I don't know what does.

Pvblivs said...

Rita Martinez:

     Well, you're getting closer. But Anne Frank is not targetting you or me specificly; and she is unable to contact everyone directly. Now that becomes a little more interesting. It is quite consistent to postulate a finite god who is either unaware of me specificly or who cannot contact me directly. Of course, that contradicts the bible.
     You are quite correct that there can be reasons why someone cannot contact someone else directly. However, I have not been able to conceive of any reason why a god of the world we see could not do so that does not inherently contradict the bible.
     That is my assertion in a nutshell. If someone wants to contact me directly and is not not effectively blocked from doing so, he will contact me directly. To take the bible as reliable, I must assume that the biblical god wants to contact me directly, has no impediments of any kind that would prevent him from doing so, and yet still does not bother.
     The situation you have posed suggest (to me) that you believe in a god who cannot communicate directly. That is quite possible; but it is not biblical.

Rita Martinez said...

yup but then there is another thing you probably don't believe in and you haven't considered and that is your sin.
Before the prophet Isaiah spoke to God he was cleansed of his sin but he at least recognized that if he stood before the Lord a sinful man as he was he would've died.
God has sent His word, now He has no need to show up at your door, He has sent the Holy Spirit to dwell in those who repent and believe, and the Holy Spirit shall guide us unto all truth.

You wanna talk to God, go to His word, He wont show up at your door just because its what you fancy...we come to God on His terms not ours...what we need to do is to step down from our high and mighty pride and humble ourselves before Him.

You can continue in your silliness Pvblivs and deny Him all you want, and continue with your flawed logic that since God hasn't showed up at your door then whatever He said to others don't mean much too you, oh but He lives, transform lives and continue to transform them.

I used to believe the Bible was silly too, thank the Lord my eyes were opened. That is all I can tell ya. In any case the Bible was written FOR us not TO us ;)

Pvblivs said...

Rita Martinez:

     No, it's more a thought that if he hasn't shown up personally, he probably does not have a personal interest in me. I can safely say that the Senators in Washington do not have a personal interest in me. That is rather different than saying what they say is unimportant.